Ed Young, Jr. recently blogged and spoke to his staff about "Church Pirates." Church Pirates are church planters who left a church to start their own thing, taking lots of people (and money?) with them.
Ed Young so strongly condemns this in his video, even going so far as to say that any church that experiences transfer growth is a Church Pirate. This is interesting because so many churches are innovating to attract outsiders - they are also probably attracting members of other churches.
Watch the video (7 min)
He's probably referring to the kinds of church planters (like Absalom), who build-up a following at their old church and split with the old church to do something different (or "better").
Is a church split always wrong? When does a Church Planter become a Church Pirate?
I watched this video a few days ago, and had to wonder what his staff was feeling as they got sat down for that talk.
My personal opinion is that a church “split"/"plant" is not always wrong, and it can be handled with a gentle, honoring spirit even when the lead pastors were not necessarily in agreement. The church is the body of Christ, and like every body it needs to have a system in place for people to move through and out of the body. If a body does not eliminate the food and elements it doesn’t need, we call it toxic and rush it to the the hospital. Since a physical church can not literally pick up and move somewhere for a fresh beginning, sometimes God and people shake things up to give them a new beginning. This can be painful, but if usually leads to a mini-diaspora, where God’s people bring their experiences to new places and new people.
I’m sure that Ed Young had some very specific events in mind, and my analysis is not worth much in light of that. People deliberately choosing to harm their home church need to check their motives, obviously. But the process of splitting/planting is not always wrong, in my opinion.
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Comment by Marla Saunders - May 29, 2008 @ 08:07 PM
I saw the video and posted a comment on Ed’s blog. But, whoever manages the comments (Ed or whoever) edited out about 7 sentences of my comment which I thought was odd. I posted another comment essentially asking why, and that comment didn’t make it and the other one got yanked. Pretty funny. To his credit, I had not experienced it and Ed specifically stated he didn’t want to hear from people who hadn’t been through it.
I totally agree with Ed if we’re talking about people who deliberately harm their church as you mentioned. But, sometimes people leave, plant another church and it’s a good thing. The two examples I know of are Craig Groeschel and Andy Stanley (that’s the part they edited out of my comment). Andy obviously had a lot of people go with him from First Baptist Atlanta (1000+) but I’m not sure about Craig. I’m sure neither of them were “pirates” though, in the sense that they built a kingdom with the sole purpose of taking it with them. In their cases I think it just worked out that way, and you can’t control who people will follow.
I would love to hear Ed reply to comments like Marla’s (here) and some similar ones on his blog. He made it sound like planting a church in the city where you worked for another church is always wrong, and I think that’s where people disagree.
Comment by Nick Blevins - May 29, 2008 @ 11:00 PM
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 1 Corinthians 3:6
Here is a thought provoking question: “Under what terms would a pastor or church leader support a mature member leaving to go to another church?”
In fact isn’t it a mark of a mature believer to expand the kingdom? Too many pastors take it personally when members leave, but if we take a look at the recent study results taken from Willow Creek many churches don’t support mature members well. If this is a trend amongst churches it could account for why some churches are vulnerable to this. Another reason is that many people will adjust to the sense of community they receive when working in a smaller church, or preferences in worship styles, ministry needs, etc.
Fundamentally, as in Paul’s words to the Corinthian church we need more pastors to focus on kingdom growth over local church growth and be content to have been given the opportunity to touch a life with the love of Jesus Christ.
Comment by Todd - May 30, 2008 @ 12:35 PM
I left 2 comments on Ed Young’s blog. I don’t know if they will get approved, so I thought I would share them here…
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I have the reverse experience. I was an associate in a church that always talked about planting. We grew from 300 to 1300, but when it came time to plant… the pastor wanted to hold onto “his” people. So he started a video venue and called it a “church plant.” I was left to plant with no support because this guy was building his Kingdom. So I guess that knife can cut both ways.
One question as I am not familiar with your church. I see you have 5 locations in your area. Have you grown with 100% new Christians or has there been transfer growth from other smaller churches? Since you seem fairly clear in your video that you oppose this kind of church “shifting” how do you deal with it in your own church when people com to you? Is there a process for sending people back to their other churches?
Thanks for your insight.
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Oh, and i should let you know. I am planting a church in a small community and we are attracting mostly people who have given up on church years ago, non-Christians and a lot of single moms. We have not planted in the kind of place you mention. At the same time, large churches like to support plants in the big cities you mention because that gives them a lot more “success” than partnering with plants in smaller rural/sub-urban areas. Another way that knife cuts both ways I suppose.
You mentioned that you plant churches. What cities have you guys planted in?
Comment by J. R. Miller - May 30, 2008 @ 01:55 PM
I was disappointed to hear this talk by Ed Young. I’m not in favor of people deliberately splitting churches in a devisive manner. However, as a Lead Pastor when you find that a church member or staffmember intends on planting another church in your area, you have a couple of choices. You can openly condemn it and try to squash it, or you can give it your blessing and pray that God will use it to advance the Kingdom. I’m not saying that it won’t sting your ego a bit. But there are some pastors who need to have their egos stung. When pastors fight this sort of thing it has great potential to leave the church with a huge black eye.
I don’t know Young or many other large church, multi-site pastors, but I know as a fellow-pastor there is always a certain ego-maniacal aspect of my nature that I must battle against. While some churches are doing the multi-site thing successfully and with the proper motives, I believe there are some that do it because they have serious control issues. My fear is that some pastors are more concerned with building personal kingdoms than they are with building THE Kingdom.
On the flip-side of all this, it is highly despicable for a staff member to try to split the church or even plant a new church in the same area, without first seeking the blessing of his/her pastor.
Comment by Jeff Myers - Jun 03, 2008 @ 07:07 PM