A Different Approach

Ready to Weigh In
After you have been misquoted for a while, don’t you just get to the point where you want to weigh in?  Homosexuality is one of those issues where I feel like my personal views as an apprentice of Jesus Christ are often misquoted.  People like me don’t tend to take out letters in the paper or hold sandwich signs during gay Rights Day.  I stand back and watch as the louder voices on each side of the issue get the press coverage.  It seems like all that I get is misunderstood, mischaracterized, and maligned.  And there is a growing group of people like me.

During a Fall Semester, the church I help pastor, New Life Christian Fellowship or [nlcf] at Virginia Tech, decided it was time to get our opinion on the table.  When I read about the woman caught in adultery, or how Jesus approached Zaccheaus, or even how he was seen as a friend of sinners, I wondered how he would have dealt with the issue.  I neither wish to give up my personal pursuit of holiness and Christ-likeness as I understand the Holy Scriptures call me to; nor do I wish to give up my newfound mercy that I am still learning to wield.

We wrestle with the culture, feeling called to adapt to their message of “acceptance.”  We are criticized that we have narrow understanding, and are limited by our own cultural bubble.  It brings to the question, “Do our kingdom values not trump culture?” And, “Are we ready to face the mockery from many by exerting our boldness to represent what genuine godliness looks like?”  These are very tough issues.

"Most of the time it is easy to determine where our culture departs from kingdom values...However, sometimes the hardest part is trying to determine what our kingdom values are."
- William Webb,  Slaves, Women and Homosexuals

Deciding on this issue seems to come down to either denying civil rights or condoning clear sin.

Our Approach and Our Challenges
Ready to weigh in, our church mailed out powerful invitation mailers to all the apartments in town to come to our “Hate People” series.  This would be a dialogue about the accusations against the Christian faith that many have held throughout history. Instead of being known by love, Christians have often been known best as being the hate people.  We wanted to weigh in on our misquoted views about God hating people who follow other religions, homosexuals, the environment and women.

“Hate is something we notice.  The pictures of it grab our eyes and the stories about it stick in our minds.  We don’t like haters.  Throughout history the church has been seen as a hateful place, sometimes fairly, sometimes not.  Some might even call us “The Hate People.” Maybe we [the church] are just like you have always thought and maybe we are not.”  - Premise for the Series

In our pursuit, it became clear that much of the evangelical community and the gay community are pretty distinct, rarely even communicating.  We wanted to connect with leaders from the gay community in order to try to understand their perspective better.  We learned quickly from meeting with a new friend of mine, Jason (name changed), that we can easily and unnecessarily step on toes.

A Kinder, Gentler Tone
Jason shared with me about the difficulty of being a gay teenager.  He agreed with statistics I shared about the physical and verbal abuse they face, saying every one of his friends was abused.

He explained to me how the gay community feels misunderstood by the media, just as conservatives do.  They feel that people unfairly limit them to their sexual identity.  Jason asked me to consider what it might be like to try to go to a church to find out about God only to hear the pastor open up in a tirade about you and hear a whole chorus of “Amen”s from all over the room.

Now, clearly the gospel will smell like death to those that are perishing.  It just made me wonder - can our words be more gentle while not relinquishing our convictions?

The Other Side
I asked him to describe how he - and perhaps the gay community - views the Christian community.  He admitted that they have their Christian jokes just like those in the Christian community have gay jokes.  He would see us overall as uninformed, overly traditional, holding on to the irrelevant moral high ground for no reason other than we heard that is how we ought to believe.  And maybe the hardest thing, we think we understand something that clearly we do not, and we don’t care to learn more.  He said overall he found church to be irrelevant in his pursuit of God and seemed to care little about pursuing him.

Now some of his views were skewed and unfair.  He made generalizations that could reflect his own misinterpretation of us.  He understood little of us and had little desire to understand more.  The idea that I could feel that his sexual orientation was wrong and yet not look down on him for it seemed almost foreign.

The reality is that this issue is not new.  The Christian community is largely uncomfortable around the gay community and the gay community finds us largely irrelevant in their pursuit of God. Quite an accomplishment.

Is God pleased with what we have done?

Einstein is noted as saying, “Insanity is doing the same thing you have always done and expecting a different result.”  So we set out to try a different approach.  Our leadership spent time preparing and seeking God on this issue we felt led to discuss.  We wrestled with some tough questions:

Can we show the complexity of this issue and how divisive it can be, point to areas of misunderstanding, while honoring the scriptures that we believe to say homosexuality is wrong? Can we disagree congenially?  Is there any room at all for discussion, for connections to be made?

Our sense of God’s leading in this is that if we did things a bit differently, maybe it could work.

“Do You Hate Me?”
Leading up to the event, we found out that the gay community leadership were going to scout out what we would say in the morning gathering, and then show up en-masse in the evening.  They would be wearing t-shirts saying, “Do you hate me?”  It was the first time I have been really nervous in quite a while before speaking publicly.  They came that evening and sat right in the front section. We started with a performance of a speech from the Larime Project, the play written about Matthew Shepard’s murder.  It was a scene, where Fred Phelps, the highly publicized pastor was yelling about God hating homosexuals.  We asked if this is how the gay community sees the church, to set up that the stereotypes run both ways.    

“Do you hate me?”

I stood up and answered for the sins of the Christian community.  How we often misunderstand them, can be afraid of them, and how we can make fun of them.  Then, to the question posed by the shirts: “Do we hate you?” we answered, “Of course not.”  But we were honest that as followers of Christ, and as a leadership team of [nlcf], we do feel that homosexuality is wrong based on the Scriptures.  We ventured to talk about why it is so much more complicated.

Different Perspectives  
During the time I spoke, I addressed the issue that people in the room would have different opinions.  I wanted to point out that disagreement did not have to be harmful, but could be a place from which to strive to understand each other better.

For discussing the scriptures, I shared our church’s views, and used a format for discussion based on the Webb text I quoted earlier.  While some may not agree with all the points made, Webb’s discussion of the gay issue and of the redemptive or progressive hermeneutic is excellent. 

I shared that every believer should consider how God would have us reflect His nature in our response to homosexuality.  His focus is very much on our hearts.

The Pledge
At the end we closed with a pledge proposal.  We acknowledged that both sides have been unnecessarily cruel and ignorant of the other.  I first addressed the Christian community, asking them to agree that for ten years they would not allow someone in their midst to make a gay joke, a demeaning generalization.  That they might commit to showing Christ-like love to the gay community, protecting them and not allowing harassment; to stand up for the right to be treated with kindness even if we disagree with their views on the gay lifestyle.

I then asked the gay community to reciprocate.  As a Christian, I have been made fun of, had my intelligence strongly questioned and have been unfairly categorized myself.  This harassment happened because I have chosen to follow and be committed to Jesus Christ.  So I asked if they would protect me.  I asked if they would put a stop to the Christian jokes and characterizations.

Results
Afterwards, many of the members of the gay community hung around for quite a while and we interacted.  The leader of the gay community said that she was shocked, having never experienced someone disagreeing with her and yet publicly stating they would defend her against unfair treatment.  She told us that she would refer people exploring their spirituality to our church.  I was invited to speak on a panel about morality and culture as a representative of the Christian faith.

Unfortunately, we have had a number of our members leave as a result of our approach.  We learned to do even more discussion with our leaders to explain why this issue needs to be discussed and about our approach.

But most of our leaders and members have said they are so glad that [nlcf] deals with these issues.  We found it galvanized the faith of many.   Several members of the gay community began attending our church or others in the area.  Many members of our church who were hiding their struggle with their sexuality have had the courage to declare that struggle and begin to allow God’s love and power and the church’s help to begin to walk through and away from it.

And now Jason comes to a bible study.  He doesn’t agree with a lot of it.  But it’s a start.

12 Comments »

1. Jim, This is a great article and I applaud your church and it’s approach to the Gospel. I have preached the same thing for the last few years although in a much smaller town.
   The message is still the same. The Gospel is all about grace and truth. As you have written the church needs to find the balance as Christ taught and be His example to everyone.

   Comment by Marvin - Sep 22, 2009 @ 05:42 AM

2. thanks for your encouragement marvin.  it is all about grace and truth.

   Comment by nlcfjim - Sep 22, 2009 @ 06:23 AM

3. The other day I read the Bible, where it features Jesus’ life, thought, and acts. And found love, grace and truth. We are to love anyone, as Christ did, no matter who this person is or has done. The rest is up to God. Is His work to bring about repentance and salvation, and afterwards to sanctify the redeemed, no matter where they come from, or what their struggles. I guess that’s what I read.

   Comment by Salvador Eguiarte - Oct 08, 2009 @ 04:02 AM

4. Mr. Pace, your comment about the church being “largely irrelevant in their pursuit of God” was, well…mindboggleing.  I am a Presbyterian and we are about to follow the Episcopalians, United Chruch of Christ, Lutherans, MCC and others in ordaining gay men and women who God has called to His service.  Most gay people I know are at least as religious as the heterosexuals I know, many more so.  While I salute and am happy to see your attempt at decency and good manners (really, I am HAPPY to see that), the ‘your still a wretched sinner if your gay and you need to ‘change’, but, we like you and will not be rude to you’ is, in a way, almost as insulting.  At least it will lead to less violence and personal attacks.  I do apprecaite that.  The person who said they would refer someone who is gay to your church however was insane.

   Its a friendly face, on an ugly message.  Gay people, straight people, ALL people need to move past backward and regressive theology that leads to those chorues of AMEN the young man referred to. Many denominations are now doing this.  Gay people looking for a relationship with God should be sent there.  No where else.  Respectfully, dont worry so much about being friendly to me….worry about raising your thelogical standards past the mire of conservativsm.  Thanks.

   Comment by Kelly - Oct 08, 2009 @ 09:16 AM

5. The Bible is clear; God is opposed to all sin, and homosexual behavior is sinful according to God.  Not man.  So is adultery, lying, theft, idolatry.  Christian, NEVER compromise over sin. Sin is sin, period.  Call it what it is.  And when you preach God’s word in totality, which includes pointing out that God is opposed to homosexual sins, you are doing it in love.  If I love you I will point out to you what God thinks of sin, according to His word. 

   So the Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Episcopalians are ordaining men and women that practice openly this sin.  Wow.  Maybe we should ordain men and women that commit bestiality, adultery, child sacrifice, and racism.  Do I sound sarcastic? That’s ok.  There are instances in the bible where the writer was sarcastic.  I’ve said all of that to say this: God hates sin.  The word CLEARLY indicates that homosexuality is sin.  Period. And so it idolatry.  Idolatry is setting up a god in place of the God of Isreal, which is what you do when you create a god in your mind that says homosexuality is not a sin.

   Comment by Ric - Oct 11, 2009 @ 11:16 AM

6. Kelly - the bible is clear that homosexuality is sin. How can you ignore that?

   Ric - Yes, God hates sin! Does that mean He hates you? You’re a sinner (Rom 3:23), do you love your neighbor? Have you ever been angry with anyone? - you’re a murderer (Matt 5). Have you ever lusted after anyone? - you’re an adulterer.

   If you’re a murderer and adulterer, are you in some kind of other standing from those who perform homosexual acts? Just sayin’. We need to extend the grace that we’ve been extended - not denying that homosexuality is a sin, but not allowing sin to keep someone from learning about God’s love and His way.

   What do you think, Ric?

   Comment by Jesse Phillips - Oct 12, 2009 @ 07:24 AM

7. Thanks for the response.  Yes, I’ve sinned as well.  All sin is an abomination before the Lord.  Lying, blasphemy, adultery, murder.  All of it.  Because of this we are all doomed without the Lord.  With that said, we are called to repent from our sin and trust Christ.  His grace is sufficient.  “What shall we say then? Shall we on on sinning so that grace may increase?  By no means!  We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” Rom 6:1&2

   To answer your question directly.  God hates sin and He will pour out his wrath and judgement.  As to this second question.  It is not applicable to the discussion. You appear to be attempting to make a connection between God’s hatred for sin and your assumption that I hate people with a particular sinful disposition.  Your qualifier “Does that mean God hates you” seems to insinuate that I hate people because I communicate God’s truth to them.

   Now, all of us are tainted by sin.  Am I somehow different?  Yes, now I am.  The righteousness of God has been imputed to me because I have trusted Messiah.  So now, I am saved.  When those who practice homosexual behavior commit their lives to Christ they will come under conviction and turn from that sin.  Just as I have turned from pornography, drugs, adultery, lying, etc.  Do we all fall from time to time?  Yes, we have the proclivity to sin.  However, God gives us power to live holy lives and to depart from sinful living.  If I continue to engage in the sins that God forbids (lying, adultery, fornication, theft-all without conviction) I am probably not saved.  Let all those who name the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (2 Tim 2:19)  Depart from sin.  Give it up. 

   But friend, your initial post appears to support the ordination of people engaging in homosexual behavior.  I am opposed to that based upon God’s word.  Your resonse is to equate that position with hating them.  I don’t hate anyone.  Is telling the truth of the word of God equal to hatred for the person you are telling it to?  Not hardly.
   God saves us by grace, and it is free.  But we are called to depart from sin.  ALL sin.

   Comment by Ric - Oct 12, 2009 @ 07:58 AM

8. Oh, okay. Got it. I think we agree.

   How does this article support ordaining people engaging in homosexual behavior? If it does, I disagree.

   I agree we’re called to depart from sin as well. I think tho, if you look at your own life carefully, you’ll see it’s not so easy. We are commanded numerous times in the bible to Love everyone. The bible is very clear that love is the fulfillment of the law. The bible defines love as: Patient, kind, not envious, not boastful, not proud, not rude, not self-seeking, not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs. does not delight in evil, rejoices w/ the truth. etc, etc. If you’re not doing all that, then you’re sinning - no?

   To a holy and perfect God, isn’t rudeness as vile and sick as any other sin? (of course, we don’t see it as that bad - and I’m not saying that the earthly consequences are equal). Perhaps not, but it only seems logical - although counter-intuitive to our sin-steeped world.

   Comment by Jesse Phillips - Oct 12, 2009 @ 08:12 AM

9. BTW, this article is somewhat flawed.  First, the christians I know don’t sit around being afraid of homosexual sins and making fun of those who commit those sins.  We are focused on drawing close to God and practicing holiness. The only ‘christians’ sitting around doing that sort of thing are probably not true followers of Christ.  Churches are full of people that listen to gross music, watch movies with blaspemy, get drunk, sing Brittney Spears songs (and take their kids to her show), get tats all over their body, lie with EASE, and then come on Sunday and sing songs that don’t even lift up the name of Jesus. 

   I’ve seen these ‘churches.’ They are full of lost souls, being led to hell by false teachers who would know the truth if it bit them on the face.  Listen to Isaiah:

   “See, the day of the Lord is coming—a cruel day with wrath and fierce anger—to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.  the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give its light.  I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sin.  I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.  I will make man scarcer than pure gold.”

   It sounds as if the Lord has wrath stored up for man.  So everyone who names the name of Christ must depart from sin. 

   Secondly, quit calling it the gay community. These are people practicing homosexual behavior.  We can love them, assist them, and minister to them just as we should minister to thieves and murderers in prison.  Those entrenched in that sin would further erode the law of God to justify their behavior, as they have succeeded in having ‘antiquated’ state laws that barred “sodomy.”  Now, the bible must be explained away.  People of God, don’t be fooled.  Keep loving God with all your heart and love your neighbor, even the homosexual, as yourself.  By doing this, you will fulfill the law of God.

   Comment by Ric - Oct 12, 2009 @ 08:12 AM

10. Jesse, I don’t disagree with you at all.  Your comments indicate that somehow I don’t love them if I tell them the truth.  Is telling someone the truth of God’s word rude or unloving or impatient, or even unkind?  No way.  The method in which I communicate God’s word must be in love. 

    I thougt I was responding to Kelly when I wrote that about ordination. That is what he/she said.  Anyway, let’s all keep praying and seeking the Father.  As we draw close to Him we will become more like Him.  And the Holy Spirit will bear fruit in us. Patience, lovingkindness, joy, and peace.

    Comment by Ric - Oct 12, 2009 @ 08:21 AM

11. Sorry I’m not being very clear. You seem to have a knack for clarity, I’m not so gifted.

    I think the point I’m trying to make is that a true, thorough reading of scripture should convict you of the hopelessness state we are in w/out Christ’s atonement - b/c we are all so super sinful (according to God’s standard, not so much according to the World’s). Therefore, I feel there should be a humility that comes with that. Indeed, love seems to be coupled w/ humility.

    So, while homosexuality is clearly sin (along w/ many other things), I think we approach the issue in humility, w/ patience. Noting the fact that our culture has no spiritual understanding and is captive to sin - they cannot understand why or how homosexual love would be sin, so let’s not start there. Let that not be a stumbling block for them receiving the gospel. Although, neither will we deny what God says about it, or ignore or discredit scripture at all.

    eh, just my thoughts. I thot you come-off a little harsh in your posts and that doesn’t seem like the biblical love that Jesus extended toward the wretched, outcast sinners of his day. You and I both agree, let us be biblical as far as possible - perhaps we disagree on our application of that idea.

    Comment by Jesse Phillips - Oct 12, 2009 @ 08:23 AM

12. wow! this discussion really took off!  sorry for not being faithful in checking back.  i do have some of my thoughts, for what they are worth that i will share next week…  thanks again ric, kelly and jesse for caring enough to write…

    Comment by jim pace - Oct 15, 2009 @ 06:39 AM

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